RACHEL: There’s no substitute for being there in person. But obviously, you can’t run over every single time a pill needs to be taken, or somebody doesn’t know how to change the channel on txhe TV. So yes, being able to have these substitutes can help, and also maybe you go in and you’re spending more quality time versus counting pills and making sure medication is taken.
CAIRA: I’m Caira Blackwell.
CHRISTINE: I’m Christine Cyr Clisset, and you’re listening to The Wirecutter Show.
CHRISTINE: Caira,
CAIRA: Christine,
CHRISTINE: We’re back, and we are here to talk about one of potentially the most kind of emotionally complicated topics we’ve ever covered on the show.
CAIRA: That is definitely one way to put it. It’s something that I tend to try to keep far out of my mind.
CHRISTINE: Today, we are talking about tools for caregivers, specifically tools and gadgets that can help caregivers stay organized. We recently published an article about this as part of a series of articles about aging in place, and we covered this last week on the show too. Anyone who has been a caregiver really knows how challenging this role can be, whether you’re a parent who’s taking care of young children or you’re taking care of an aging parent, an ill spouse, or someone else in your life.
There’s a huge to-do list every day, and it can be a very rewarding and exhausting job. I’ve watched the people around me who have been in this role, and it can be really challenging, especially if you’re juggling work, family, and other responsibilities.
CAIRA: That’s right. So last week, we aired an interview with our colleague, Doug Mahoney, about the small and big remodels you can make to your home to make it a better place to age in place. It’s packed with a ton of great advice for specific products that can really make your home more comfortable and safe for someone who’s getting older.
CHRISTINE: And in this episode, we’re going to talk with our colleague, Rachel Cericola, who is a writer on our tech team. She wrote this great piece with a lot of recommendations for tools and gadgets and strategies that can be helpful to keep caregivers organized.
CAIRA: And although we’ll be focused in this conversation on caregiving for older people, we really feel like many of the tools we discussed would be really helpful for people with kids, roommates, or anyone sharing a household.
CHRISTINE: We’ll talk with Rachel right after the break.
CAIRA: Welcome back. With us now is Rachel Cericola. Rachel is a senior writer on our tech team focused on smart home. She’s written about smart home devices for over 25 years. And in addition to this piece on tools for caregivers, she’s also written a very helpful article about tech devices for people aging in place. And fun fact, in college, she was on a reality trivia show on MTV called Remote Control, and she made it to the last round. So if we ever do a trivia bar night as a team, Rachel, you’re coming with us.
CHRISTINE: Absolutely. Rachel, welcome to the show. And yeah, you’re on my team.
RACHEL: Thank you. I’m very excited to be here and would be honored to be on your trivia team.
CHRISTINE: Rachel, we’re going to get into a lot of this great advice that you have in this piece about tools for caregivers, but I am curious, do you have experience as a caregiver? What is your background in this?
RACHEL: Well, I got interested in doing the article, because I was having my own kind of personal experience at the time. Well, I wasn’t the caregiver, but I had an out-of-state family member who was requiring 24/7 care last year. She had a professional caregiver. And also, all of my siblings, they were all dealing with it as well. I would call them all caregivers, and they were keeping me very informed about what’s going on.
In this piece, we talk about how you can get in touch with other caregivers, whether they’re family members or professional caregivers, and that’s what I was experiencing. My family had a group text chain, team text chain, and they kept me very informed on everything that was going on.
CAIRA: This piece that you wrote about is all about just staying organized, and that sounds like it’s really basic, but why is it so important for caregivers to stay organized?
RACHEL: Oh my gosh. Just think about the stuff that you have to do this week, this month. Now, add another person into the mix, and maybe you have kids. So just trying to organize all of that is difficult. But when it comes to caring for someone, it really can be life-threatening, for lack of a better word. Maybe you have to keep someone’s medications organized. You have to keep their appointments organized. You have to make sure that they’re eating, standing up, that they’re drinking water, that they’re getting communication with other people. So it’s very important to organize all of those things, and I think it can really weigh on you if you’re not organized.
CHRISTINE: I know you talked to a lot of people for this story. I’d love to hear about the types of people you spoke with. Were they professional caregivers? Are they people taking care of maybe a spouse, a parent, someone else in their life?
RACHEL: I actually spoke to both professional caregivers and people that were caring for their parents. For this specific piece, we’re really focusing on older people. But I wish I could include all of the stories, because so many of them are so important and so interesting. I’ve talked to people that were caring for spouses, and then I’ve talked to other people that were caring for children, and I’m hoping to incorporate their stories in other pieces down the line. For this specific piece, I was more focused on, I’m going to call them, regular people that were caring for their parents.
CAIRA: And in your piece, you cover some really broad categories where it’s specifically helpful for these normal people or caregivers to stay organized, and that’s in scheduling, communicating with others, managing medications, and managing paperwork and budgeting. So we want to walk through each one of these. Let’s start with scheduling. What are the biggest challenges here?
RACHEL: I would say just keeping track of all of the appointments, things like eating and drinking. You don’t think that those things need to be scheduled. But if people have dementia or any kind of memory loss, it’s a big problem. So you may have to schedule those type of things, believe it or not. But also, if you’re dealing with other people like siblings or professional caregivers, you want everybody to be on the same page.
CHRISTINE: I think we talked a lot about that, Rachel, when we first assigned this piece, that managing remote caregiving or managing a caregiving situation with siblings, or maybe you’ve got a team of people. Maybe there’s a home health aide. Maybe there’s a couple other people helping, and that’s when things can get really tricky and very confusing when it comes to scheduling.
RACHEL: Yes.
CAIRA: So what are the tools that your experts recommended for helping with scheduling?
RACHEL: Well, one popular item was the Skylight Calendar. I had heard of it before this piece. It’s really popular with families. It’s hard to ignore this calendar that’s sitting on either your counter or it’s mounted to the wall, and it’s color coded, and you can easily add things to it through an app. It just focuses on the calendar.
CHRISTINE: I am kind of into this. I didn’t know about this thing before I looked at it when you wrote this piece, and it’s basically this big digital screen that goes on the wall or on your counter, and it looks like you’re looking at a Google Calendar essentially, but you can kind of move events and… Is it a touch screen?
RACHEL: I believe it is a touch screen.
CHRISTINE: Yeah. To me, I was like, “I would use this with my kids. This is the day you do these chores. This is the day so-and-so is going to gymnastics. This is the day that grandparents are coming into town.” So I could see where it has pretty wide application.
RACHEL: Yes.
CAIRA: But the idea is that you can operate it or add things to it remotely, right?
RACHEL: Right. And that way, multiple people can add things to it if necessary. They can all have the app. But also, you can add things like brush your teeth, something simple like that.
CHRISTINE: And how much is that?
RACHEL: It’s about 300-ish dollars, a little over 300. It depends on the size that you get. There’s more than one size.
CHRISTINE: So it’s a bit of an investment. That’s not just buying a wall calendar, but if you’re going to use it a lot and it saves a lot of grief, that could be worth it.
RACHEL: Yes. Another great thing about it is that you can sync it with other calendars, like your Google Calendar or your iPhone calendar, and it will just show up right on the screen.
CAIRA: That is nice.
CHRISTINE: That’s even better. What else did your expert recommend?
RACHEL: Another one that came up is this item I had never heard of called the Relish Day Hub. There’s actually two products. There’s a thing called the Relish Day Connect, which is a simple clock, and you think, “Oh, what’s the big deal about a clock?” Well, this clock shows the day, the time, the day of the week. And for people that have memory issues, that’s a big deal. So it’s very helpful.
When you add the Hub into the mix, you can add tasks on it. So very similar to the Skylight, except maybe a little bit more simplistic. You actually write the tasks on the screen. So maybe it says, “Brush your teeth.” It says, “Get dressed.” It says, “Go for a walk.” And as these tasks come up, you will get an alert on the device, and then you can also check them off as they’re completed. And then at the end of the day, it’ll just kind of erase itself, not the tasks, just that you had checked them off so you can start over again the next day.
CHRISTINE: So this could help someone who potentially doesn’t have someone at home all the time helping them. Right? Maybe this might be something if your parent or someone else has memory issues, that this can help them stay on task and do the things they need to do, not being supervised 100% of the time.
RACHEL: Yes. And I would say it’s really for tasks that you’re completing every single day. So it’s not like the random doctor’s appointment or the random lunch that you’re having with somebody. It’s things that you need to do every day.
CHRISTINE: Right. Take your medicine, take a shower, eat lunch, all that good stuff.
CAIRA: Drink some water.
RACHEL: Yes.
CHRISTINE: Yes.
CAIRA: How much does this one cost?
RACHEL: That’s about $200.
CAIRA: Still not cheap.
RACHEL: Yes.
CHRISTINE: Yeah.
RACHEL: Nothing in this category is cheap.
CHRISTINE: Let’s move from scheduling onto another tricky one, communication. This can be really difficult if you’re coordinating a lot of people. Were there any common themes that came up in your reporting about the communication challenges that people have related to caregiving?
RACHEL: Figuring out a way to communicate that’s easy for everyone involved. So I spoke to somebody that said they used iPhone Notes that they shared with their sibling, and that was just a shared document basically on their phones, or Google Calendar, or maybe it’s a text chain. But yeah, so just a way that you’re comfortable with, I would say. Figure out what’s best for you. Also, just keeping clear records so that everybody knows what’s going on. When you’re communicating, it’s a good idea to just make sure everything is correct.
CHRISTINE: Get it in text.
RACHEL: Yes.
CHRISTINE: Always get it in text.
CAIRA: In writing.
RACHEL: Yes.
CHRISTINE: Were there other tools or services that came up in your reporting that people found really helpful?
RACHEL: Yes. I spoke to one gentleman who used Google Docs, which is also free, but he created an entire manual of his father. So anytime he had a new caregiver, there was a manual on basically how to take care of him. He mentioned that he was tired of telling new caregivers how to work the washing machine. He made a video that was in this document. It’s amazing the things that you can come up with, with just even free tools.
So that was one, and then there were a few other devices, one being the Amazon Echo, which has Alexa built in. It’s great for helping with schedules, helping with reminders, but also with communication. So if you have a smart speaker in your home and your loved one has a smart speaker in their home, you can talk to them through the device. If you have a screen, you can talk face-to-face.
And maybe even if you don’t have a screen, if you have the app, you can talk to them through that. So that’s a great communication tool, and it can also play things like music or podcasts or the weather or can answer all of your random trivia questions that you have.
CHRISTINE: We don’t need that. We have you, Rachel.
RACHEL: There’s also a really interesting service called Alexa Emergency Assist, and that’s if somebody falls, they can call out to their Alexa speaker, and it’ll put them in touch with police or fire.
CHRISTINE: Maybe not the same, but kind of similar to the idea of wearing a medical alert device where there’s some kind of help on the other end.
RACHEL: Yes. Yes, except a lot of people don’t love wearing those. So this, you just call out. There was another device that came up called the JubileeTV, and I found this to be really interesting application to use with people aging in place, because it’s actually a universal remote, and you hook this thing up to a TV, and it can be controlled remotely.
So say I have it at my parents’ house set up. I can control their TV. I can also troubleshoot their TV, which I think a lot of people have had that issue where they’ve had to do some remote troubleshooting. It’s not pleasant. Also, it has a system in place where you can send messages or even do video chat, and the messages might be, “Take your medication,” or “I’m coming over later,” or something like that. It was a very interesting system.
CHRISTINE: That is interesting. Rachel, you are a smart home expert, and we talked briefly about this last week with Doug around when you are integrating smart home features into someone else’s home, and there is some sort of transparency communication that has to happen there, and I think you reported on that in this other tech piece you wrote. Can you share a little bit about what are the best practices if you’re going to put a smart speaker or a smart thermostat or a smart camera or something in your parents’ home, say?
RACHEL: I mean, you need to have a discussion with the person who’s going to be living with it. That’s not the kind of thing that you want to surprise anyone. You don’t want any surprise messages popping up on the TV. It could make them paranoid or nervous. So it’s very important to have that kind of discussion with someone. Also, anybody else that’s coming in the house, whether that’s your siblings, professional caretaker, if you’re going to have cameras, if you’re going to have any smart devices, smart speakers. It’s a household decision.
CHRISTINE: Even if you just have that stuff in your own home and say you have a babysitter, should you also be telling them that you have this smart stuff?
RACHEL: It’s a good idea to do that. Yes. And in some places, it can actually be illegal if you have that inside and you don’t disclose to people coming in.
CHRISTINE: Gotcha.
CAIRA: Oh, wow.
CHRISTINE: Okay. Well, you heard it here, folks. That’s important information.
CAIRA: Okay. So to recap, we just went over two of the challenging things about caretaking, which is scheduling and communication. So for scheduling, you recommend the Skylight Calendar and the Relish Day Hub to kind of keep everybody on the same page. And for communication, there are free things you can do like sharing a Notes app or even creating a Google Doc that you can share around, and that’s free, or you can get the Amazon Echo or the JubileeTV, which can help communicate over phone or video call, or it can help you monitor. A lot of these options aren’t cheap, but if you need them, then you need them, and you price that cost based off of what you actually need.
CHRISTINE: We’re going to take a quick break. And when we’re back, we are going to talk about some of the tools that caregivers should consider for managing medications, that’s a huge one, and all of the paperwork, so much paperwork. We’ll be right back.
CAIRA: Welcome back. We’re here with Rachel Cericola to talk about the tools that can help caregivers stay organized. So before the break, we talked about some of the tech solutions for scheduling and communicating.
CHRISTINE: Now, we’re going to talk about managing medications. Rachel, this strikes me really close to home. My mother-in-law passed away a couple years ago. And in the last part of her life, she had some memory loss, and my sister-in-law was caring for her and my brother-in-law, and the medication part of it was just a really big issue. They didn’t always know if she had taken the medication she needed to take, and we didn’t really figure it out before the end for her. What are some of the solutions that some of the people that you talked to suggested?
RACHEL: Well, for some people, a pill box can work really well, but other people need something a little bit more advanced, and one of the people I spoke to was very big into something called the Hero Smart Pill Dispenser. This is a pill dispenser that connects to the internet. It dispenses the right medication, the right amount of medication, and at the right time of day. And also, it’ll alert you if the people are not taking that medication. So that is a huge difference between just a normal pill box.
CHRISTINE: So will it notify you on your phone, basically?
RACHEL: Yes.
CHRISTINE: Okay.
RACHEL: Yes.
CHRISTINE: So you could be at work. You know Mom’s supposed to take her pill at noon, and it will notify you if she has or hasn’t.
RACHEL: Yes. It sends alerts to both the user, so the person supposed to be taking the medication, and then any designated caregivers in the app if they’re not taking it.
CAIRA: And how much does that cost?
RACHEL: That’s very expensive. It actually has a subscription cost that’s $45 a month.
CHRISTINE: Ooh, that’s expensive.
RACHEL: If you sign up, you have to have a 12-month commitment.
CAIRA: Wow.
RACHEL: But, I mean, if you don’t take your medication, can you put a price on that?
CAIRA: Yeah.
RACHEL: Probably not. I think they actually might offer a free trial before you lock yourself in. But one thing that’s important to note is you should always check with your insurance company, or if you have an HSA, you should check and see if you can apply any of that to this device.
CHRISTINE: A lot of these things we’re talking about, like we’ve said, are expensive, but human time is also expensive. So if this is able to help you not have someone there all the time, then that could be financially better, actually, in some ways.
CAIRA: Right.
RACHEL: Right. People that I spoke to, I mean, a common theme was there’s no substitute for being there in person. But obviously, you can’t run over every single time a pill needs to be taken, or somebody doesn’t know how to change the channel on the TV. So yes, being able to have these substitutes can help, and also helps, maybe you go in and you’re spending more quality time versus counting pills and making sure medication is taken.
CAIRA: So we have this other bucket of things that need to be organized. It’s paperwork. It’s budgeting. It’s notes. What are the biggest challenges for caregivers when it comes to all of this?
RACHEL: There’s so much paperwork and just so many things to keep track of. Something that I never thought about before I had my own family experience were things like passwords. And I know at Wirecutter, we recommend password managers, but just having any kind of record of passwords is a big deal, but you might also need someone’s birth certificate, their power of attorney paperwork, account numbers, and I think something that I learned here is a lot of people want actual paper, which is something-
CAIRA: Still?
RACHEL: Yes, they do.
CHRISTINE: You mean agencies that you might be dealing with, or banks, or whatever they want?
RACHEL: Yeah, or the hospital.
CHRISTINE: Right.
RACHEL: They might want it physically on paper. I spoke to one woman who said that someone told her to fax paperwork, and she was like, “Fax?”
CAIRA: “I don’t have a printer.”
RACHEL: “I didn’t know they still had fax machines.”
CAIRA: So what are the best tools that you found to help with this category?
RACHEL: A lot of people talked about having a folder or a binder that you keep things in. But also, as far as the fax, good luck finding a fax machine. There’s a great service called Documo. It’s a digital fax service. So you don’t have to deal with an actual machine, and you can send stuff, almost like sending it through email, except what makes this service different than other digital fax services is that it’s HIPAA-compliant. So you don’t have to worry about sending sensitive medical records, or maybe your Social Security number or someone’s Social Security number. It’s a little bit more secure.
CAIRA: That’s great.
RACHEL: You can take pictures on your phone, or if you already have these documents on your computer, it’s easy to just send them digitally.
CHRISTINE: And then it prints out on the other end to somebody else’s fax machine, essentially.
RACHEL: Yes. Yes.
CHRISTINE: Okay. All right. What else?
RACHEL: Another thing that came up was people love checklists. Who doesn’t love a good checklist?
CHRISTINE: I love a checklist. Yeah.
RACHEL: I love a checklist, and a good way to keep your checklist organized is through an app called Todoist.
CAIRA: Ooh.
RACHEL: Not only can you keep track of tasks that need to be done, but also, you can share them with other people. So someone I spoke to actually said that he would create a checklist for a professional caregiver, and they would be able to check it off, and he could see when things were being completed, and also add things as necessary. And then, of course, you can also keep track of things like appointments or maybe questions you have to ask the doctor or grocery lists. So it came in handy.
CAIRA: I actually use Todoist. I use the free version to help me keep track of my assignments. I love it. I didn’t realize you could send it to other people.
CHRISTINE: I tried… Well, I did. I signed up for it, but I couldn’t figure out how to use it. So I stopped. I went back to my Google Docs.
RACHEL: As techy as I am, I do love a good handwritten checklist, because there is something satisfying about crossing things off.
CHRISTINE: Yeah. Absolutely.
RACHEL: One other thing that people talked about was having to organize finances, which I think we all have problems with just when it’s one person or family, but when you throw someone else into the mix, it can be more complicated. So a person that I spoke to recommended Moneydance, which is a software program that allows you to keep track of multiple budgets.
And this particular person I spoke to, he was dealing with his father’s expenses, and he’s a vet. So they were eligible to get money back from the VA for different expenses, but he needed to keep a detailed list of everything. So that might be like groceries or medications. I mean, imagine having to itemize everything in your budget and also for one person.
CAIRA: Right.
RACHEL: So this software makes it easy to pull those things out.
CHRISTINE: That’s super handy. I like that. There’s just so many good tips in here. I feel like anybody who’s kind of in this situation of caregiving, at least one of these recommendations would probably suit. But let’s just recap really briefly. So we’ve talked about medication. If you are in a situation where you’re trying to help someone manage their medication, the Hero Smart Pill Dispenser could be a really good solution in this case. It does have a pretty steep subscription service fee that comes along with it, but that might be worth it to you depending on your situation. And then for this big category of paperwork, we’ve got Documo, which is the very cool faxing technology, which I even said it like it was an old-
CAIRA: Never thought you would say that.
CHRISTINE: I mean, I could probably use that, because every once in a while, I have to fax something. Todoist, which will help you make checklists and share them, and then Moneydance if you’re looking for some solutions for budgeting.
CAIRA: Yeah. So we’ve talked about a lot of tech solutions, but what if somebody isn’t super tech-savvy? How should someone gauge whether to invest in these tools? Because they are really expensive. And, of course, if it doesn’t work, then you’re out a lot of money.
RACHEL: They’re very expensive. I would say that if you’re not comfortable with technology, you should really ease into it. A lot of people love having a journal, or like I said, they love having folders. You need to figure out what is best for you. You don’t want to complicate things by adding tech into it if you’re not comfortable with the technology. A lot of these things though, they make it very easy to learn. I wouldn’t jump in and go buy everything on our list if you’re not super comfortable with technology, but there are a lot of devices that you can try.
CHRISTINE: Rachel, you have this other piece that we mentioned at the top of the episode. We’ll link it in the show notes, and it’s tech devices to help aging in place. Are there any other items in this piece that are relevant to the conversation we’ve had today that would be really helpful if you’re a caregiver trying to manage someone remotely or maybe even in the same town? What are some of the highlights from that piece that you would want to bring here?
RACHEL: I would say a few of my favorite devices are also some of the easiest devices to add, and those would be smart bulbs and smart plugs. Both are relatively inexpensive and easy to set up, and can really change a person’s day-to-day. When it comes to smart bulbs, I don’t know about you, but I hate walking into a dark room. Someone that’s older could risk falling or just injuring themselves.
Smart bulbs, it’s as easy as screwing in a light bulb, and you connect it to an app, and you can set it up to go on and off at certain times of day. A little bit more complicated. You could set up with a motion sensor. So someone walks into the room, and the light goes on. That’s very easy to implement. And also, smart plugs. It just plugs into the wall, connects to an app. And anything electrical that plugs into the wall, you can plug into the smart plug. So maybe you have a fan or a lamp, and you can just control that with an app. Similar to the smart plugs, set it to go on and off at different times of day.
CHRISTINE: That’s great. I know some people use that for their AC too.
RACHEL: Yes. So it’s not running all day, but also, maybe you turn it on before you get home so it’s not super hot in the room.
CAIRA: Okay, Rachel, we’ve made it to the last question, which is, what’s the last thing you’ve bought that you’ve really loved?
RACHEL: I didn’t buy it, but I just got the Ninja air fryer, which I love. I love it. I had a different air fryer, and it was just a mess, and I was afraid it was going to catch on fire at some point, but this one is so easy to clean. And it looks small, but it holds a lot and takes up less space on the counter, and I love it.
CAIRA: What do you mean you didn’t buy it?
RACHEL: I didn’t buy it.
CAIRA: Did you steal it?
RACHEL: No. No. But it was gifted to me after some heavy suggestions that I wanted it.
CAIRA: That’s lovely.
CHRISTINE: Well, this has been super helpful, Rachel. We’ll link everything we talked about in the show notes today.
RACHEL: Great. Thank you.
CHRISTINE: Thanks for being here.
CAIRA: Thank you.
CHRISTINE: Caira, this truly was one of the heavier topics we’ve covered on the show.
CAIRA: A bit harrowing, I’m not going to lie. Yeah.
CHRISTINE: Yeah. I mean, caregiving, there’s probably no greater service and honor you can show your loved ones than taking care of them, whether they’re children, whether they’re your aging parents, and it can be very challenging. It’s very emotional, and then there’s just so many details to keep track of.
CAIRA: Yeah.
CHRISTINE: The big takeaway that I’m taking from this conversation with Rachel is that focusing on the ways that you can build some of these tools into your life to help you stay organized can maybe lift some of the burden, whether it’s building better ways to communicate with the people that you’re working with, whether it’s budgeting, thinking through what are the things that will have the biggest payoff for you, and I don’t think that everything we talked about in this episode is going to be right for everyone.
CAIRA: Right.
CHRISTINE: I mean, one thing that is right for me personally, I think, is something like this Skylight Calendar. I really like this.
CAIRA: Yeah. Your eyes lit up with that one.
CHRISTINE: Yeah. I was like, “Ooh, I need this.” I think that something like that would be really helpful just for my family.
CAIRA: Yeah. I think a lot of these products that Rachel recommended could be used. I have trouble remembering things, which is why I use Todoist. I think it’s super helpful. Now, I know I can send my checklist to other people. Didn’t know that before. A reality that I have really come to realize exists in this world of caretaking, caregiving is the massive cost. Along with the emotional cost and the time, it is expensive to use many of these things.
CHRISTINE: I think it’s just everybody has to do what’s best for their families, for the people in their lives. You’re not going to be able to buy all of this stuff, maybe not even be able to buy any of it, but we have mentioned some free things in here. So it’s kind of like you just have to assess your own situation and prioritize what you think you’ll get the most value out of.
CAIRA: Right.
CHRISTINE: Yeah. Well, if you are interested in anything that we mentioned today, we will have everything linked in our show notes, links to Rachel’s articles, both of the articles we talked about, and all of the products we mentioned today.
CAIRA: That’s it for us, until next week. Thank you so much for listening. Bye. The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Guerin and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Maddy Masiello and Nick Pitman. Today’s episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Elisheba Ittoop, Catherine Anderson, Rowan Niemisto, and Diane Wong. Cliff Levy is Wirecutter’s deputy publisher and general manager. Ben Frumin is Wirecutter’s editor in chief. I’m Caira Blackwell.
CHRISTINE: I’m Christine Cyr Clisset.
CAIRA: Thanks for listening.
RACHEL: I made it all the way to the end, but I didn’t wager all of my points on the last question, and the other guy did, and we both got the question right.
